friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:46 pm

Kirk Magnum wrote:
Jasonlivessince1980 wrote:There is no one I am aware of, that worked on Friday the 13th part 3 that backs up Doug's claim to the hockey mask.

As we all know, Crash interviewed White a few years back and he said a few things... one, that the masks were clear plastic (true), two, that the chevrons were plastic that was glued to the mask (also true)... he also said, when shown a picture of a frighstuff mask, that the flare around the edge was inaccurate and thus it could not have been from the movie mold (any good photo of the movie mask indicates the flare is actually present). He then showed he is perfectly willing to take credit for someone else's work, telling Crash he created and applied the chevrons himself, when in Crystal Lake Memories, he attributed them to Terry Ballard (technical consultant, also plays the gray haired cop at the end). Doug was asked what color the masks were and couldn't recall, claiming "we just mixed up some paint for the right color" and made no mention of the antiquing medium that was used to achieve the crackle effect.

But there's more. Doug claimed to have made the mold himself, though in Crystal Lake Memories, Sadoff said "Marty Becker's team" (technical effects) made the molds and "Robb Wilson King made various versions of it." I've actually never heard a quote, in CLM or anywhere else, where anyone on set actually backs up White's claim to the hockey mask. Robb told me that the masks were painted and finished with a satin clear coat to prevent chipping and give the mask a slightly reflective appearance so it would look better during night time filming. He also applied what he called a "slight aged patina" to the front of the mask to make it look old and gave it a "cream color." Robb has never tried to cash in on his Friday the 13th connection.

Then there's this nonsense about the masks being painted from the back and the front being entirely clear? Do I have this right? No hock painter paints them that way. We all know the masks were painted and weathered on the front, which is very clear in any good photo of the 3 or 4 masks. When interviewed by Crash, White said the mask was clear coated with Krylon Crystal Clear (not accurate, but close), and now he is saying it was just clear plastic in front? Does somebody have a video clip of him saying this?

Doug White, of course, cannot produce a mold, and says it was stolen after 1985. When it was still in his possession, he claims he made pulls for David Miller to paint for F13 part 5. But the masks in the film all have a recast look to them, and even have the same trim as the part 4 mask (with the lower left cut further in), suggesting they were in fact recasts. The fact that the part 4 mask, seen at the end, has the snaps missing and replaced by pan head screws further bolsters the idea that the Roy was a recast of the 4, but only David Miller could answer this question for sure.

Either way, Doug White did not possess any mask molds... ReelFX, Marty Becker's company founded shortly after production on part 3 wrapped in 1982, worked on most of the films and would have provided the raw pulls for Bill Forsche, David Miller and everyone else. They very likely kept the original stunt mask from part 3 and gave it to Savini for part 4. Again, people that worked on the film could clarify a lot of this. Makeup effects guys did not make the masks... the masks were provided to the fx teams by someone else, probably ReelFX.

Doug White is responsible for a lot of the confusion surrounding the history of the hockey mask... noticeably he doesn't try to take credit for the hocks in his CLM interview. People on set all say that no one person can take credit for the mask... it was a group effort, beginning with Sadoff's street mask, Becker's team's sculpt, Robb's paint job and Ballard's chevron innovation. Doug would have you believe it was all him.

Billy, Sadoff may have been trying to cash in on his F13 connection, but it doesn't mean he inaccurately identified Robb Wilson King as the painter of the masks, particularly since Robb confirmed, and has never tried to cash in himself. I haven't blabbed to the forums that I talked to him because I'd rather people not harass him about it because of me, he doesn't seem to want much to do with Friday the 13th.

Always welcome questions, comments, etc.

I would like to interview White myself really, and ask why he is making up all this nonsense.

Jason




Have you ever actually looked at the Friday the 13th the Final Chapter transparency? Not a photo but the actual 8x10 transparency; the one without any credits on it. You can easily tell they painted the back of the mask as well. Wasn't that mask also the "Hero" mask? The shape of that mask also has no odd warp-age, dimples or indention's like the Frightstuff blanks have.



Billy

Thanks for the photo and the info. I think this is interesting...

Take it with a grain of salt, but you will note, in Crystal Lake Memories, Sadoff said he had a hockey mask on set that they put on Brooker during a makeup test. He described it as a white mask with a red stripe down the middle... I'm guessing that this is the mask he was describing, it certainly looks old. If that is true, then this was the precursor to what they later sculpted for the film. He claimed that Becker's team changed the holes around or something, but of course, the design we know is firmly rooted in the simple Jacques Plante fibrosport design of the early 70's, though this might also be a Plante, not sure.

To clarify, I never said the back of the mask was not painted... it certainly was painted white. Every hock artist knows that. I've always painted the backs of my part 3 hocks white, and the front a mustard beige color.The front of the mask was also painted, from what someone said on here Doug seemed to be saying they were not, maybe he can clarify. I'm not sure exactly which photograph/transparency you are referring to do you mean the TFC poster photo?

As far as your assessment of the shapes and idiosyncracies of the mask, I don't want to make this a "frighstuff" debate. Lets stay on topic so we don't get a mod locking this thread. I will only refer you to my analysis on this on my blog, you can see it here: http://jasonlivessince1980.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html
http://jasonlivessince1980.blogspot.com/2010_02_01_archive.html you can also see that the oddities are consistent.

And just so we're clear, the movie masks had a flare
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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:47 pm

Sorry mm.net doesn't resize... rrrrrr :x :x you can see these at Auz's screen cap database at http://s561.photobucket.com/albums/ss53 ... reenshots/

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby auzorann » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:53 pm

if the masks were only painted on the inside then why are the cheek snaps painted? it wouldn't make any sense to paint those snaps if it's not painted on the outside.
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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Clownnation » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Yeah man, i would LOVE to see these transparencies you are refering to. That would kick a**! Got a photo?

I dont think anyone was really saying the front of the mask was not painted... You can clearly see shadows UNDER the scuff marks on the forehead/nose and such. I Think when Doug White said the inside was painted Im certain he was just refering to the white base coat.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby auzorann » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:01 pm

i'm not sure if anyone has noticed this and if they have i haven't seen anyone point it out. it may not even have anything to do with the discussion though lol.

anyway, the method used for making the pulls of the masks seems quite different. the suction of the machine anyway. if you look at the pictures above of the part 4 mask you can see the plastic around the vent holes is fairly even with the hole itself. now look at the part 5 mask. the plastic around the vent holes is concave. anyone ever notice this?
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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Kirk Magnum » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:02 pm

Where is the lower left indention near the mouth holes. It's not there until part 6. The part 5 roy has characteristics that are different than the normal part 3 mask. Now somewhere something happened; there was 1 complete year of nothing going on in the Friday realm from 3 to 4. Part 5, someone made copy molds somewhere and that when things started changing.

PS-Martin said nothing about my mask as the catalyst for the hockey mask...just used in the movie and Entertainment Tonight. Some one else said a leather hockey mask was the mask used as reference for the part 3 mask.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:06 pm

"Marty Becker was upset about what Martin had done; he had his team search his warehouse for the molds for the original hockey mask and he was going to make me a copy. Sadly, he said that all he had were copy molds that were smaller. Marty called some of his FX buddies as well looking for the original mold; sadly to no avail."

Did I miss something here? Why didn't you guys just ask Doug White? Wasn't he the sculptor and true owner of the mold as he claims? If Doug White was the sculptor and kept his original mold at least until the mid 1980's when it was allegedly stolen, why would Marty Becker have it?

So this means Sadoff's version is correct. Becker made the mold, not White.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Kirk Magnum » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:11 pm

Jasonlivessince1980 wrote:"Marty Becker was upset about what Martin had done; he had his team search his warehouse for the molds for the original hockey mask and he was going to make me a copy. Sadly, he said that all he had were copy molds that were smaller. Marty called some of his FX buddies as well looking for the original mold; sadly to no avail."

Did I miss something here? Why didn't you guys just ask Doug White? Wasn't he the sculptor and true owner of the mold as he claims? If Doug White was the sculptor and kept his original mold at least until the mid 1980's when it was allegedly stolen, why would Marty Becker have it?

So this means Sadoff's version is correct. Becker made the mold, not White.


I would say this because I contacted him in 2000/01/02/03 and near his death. Wasn't the last Friday he worked on Part 8 and the mask was smaller than the part 3 mask. So, at that time either the original mold was gone or he made a smaller mold off the original; because he only had a smaller mold in the 2000's. Maybe his memory was not there to remember what happened to the original mold. Obviously Marty moved on from Friday the 13th and didn't really care about it.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Clownnation » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:14 pm

what lower left indention? You talk about the VIEWER"S left? Cause the part 3 on screen mask (and frightstuff blanks) clearly have that, and the right side dips in a little as well...

AUZ the part 5 has indentions around the vent holes, because the part 5 holes are drilled smaller than the part 3 and 4 masks.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:18 pm

Kirk Magnum wrote:
Jasonlivessince1980 wrote:"Marty Becker was upset about what Martin had done; he had his team search his warehouse for the molds for the original hockey mask and he was going to make me a copy. Sadly, he said that all he had were copy molds that were smaller. Marty called some of his FX buddies as well looking for the original mold; sadly to no avail."

Did I miss something here? Why didn't you guys just ask Doug White? Wasn't he the sculptor and true owner of the mold as he claims? If Doug White was the sculptor and kept his original mold at least until the mid 1980's when it was allegedly stolen, why would Marty Becker have it?

So this means Sadoff's version is correct. Becker made the mold, not White.


I would say this because I contacted him in 2000/01/02/03 and near his death. Wasn't the last Friday he worked on Part 8 and the mask was smaller than the part 3 mask. So, at that time either the original mold was gone or he made a smaller mold off the original; because he only had a smaller mold in the 2000's. Maybe his memory was not there to remember what happened to the original mold. Obviously Marty moved on from Friday the 13th and didn't really care about it.


I hear ya Billy and I'm sure Martin had smaller copies or something, I'm just saying you torpedoed Doug White's claim to the mask and made him look like even more of a liar. Martin Becker had the molds, not Doug White. Thanks!

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Crash 4 life » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:23 pm

Be really exciting to hear from the guy who owns the fright-stuff molds and his story on this, maybe it would help or maybe not .
Are they from the stolen molds the guy is talking about or something different all together?
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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:27 pm

Kirk Magnum wrote:Where is the lower left indention near the mouth holes. It's not there until part 6. The part 5 roy has characteristics that are different than the normal part 3 mask. Now somewhere something happened; there was 1 complete year of nothing going on in the Friday realm from 3 to 4. Part 5, someone made copy molds somewhere and that when things started changing.


Lighting is a big factor here. Looking through my blog, in most photos of my own frighstuff masks I can't see the thumbprint dent in the lower left mouth area you are talking about. I'm not surprised you can't see them in several screen caps or bts photos... hell you can't even see them in many photos of the part 6 hocks. If the light doesn't hit the glare just right, it really is not obvious.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Kirk Magnum » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:29 pm

If you look for inconsistencies, then you will find inconsistencies. Does everyone understand that drugs were very prevalent on the set of part 3. Peoples memories are kinda in a fog,; especially after 20 plus years trying to remember something that no one thought was going to be what it became.

If Marty thought he had the original molds, he thought he did. But in 2000, that was 12 years since he worked on a Friday, and if he didn't remember correctly then his pans out the other way.

It just astonishes me that after Marty's death a mold is supposedly found and from the looks of it, was a smaller copy mold that he said he had. Mind you, at this same time Martin Sadoff say's he has the original mold too and tried to sell that on eBay as well with no pics. See, then there's the money wrench back into play.

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Jasonlivessince1980 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:38 pm

Kirk Magnum wrote:If you look for inconsistencies, then you will find inconsistencies. Does everyone understand that drugs were very prevalent on the set of part 3. Peoples memories are kinda in a fog,; especially after 20 plus years trying to remember something that no one thought was going to be what it became.

If Marty thought he had the original molds, he thought he did. But in 2000, that was 12 years since he worked on a Friday, and if he didn't remember correctly then his pans out the other way.

It just astonishes me that after Marty's death a mold is supposedly found and from the looks of it, was a smaller copy mold that he said he had. Mind you, at this same time Martin Sadoff say's he has the original mold too and tried to sell that on eBay as well with no pics. See, then there's the money wrench back into play.


If you look for inconsistencies, you will indeed find them. Whether they exist or not. But the evidence points to Becker as the sculptor/owner of the molds (or his team, later ReelFX). Really, there is no evidence that points to White's claim at all, except his own assertions. No one backs him up that worked on the movie, and we have Sadoff, King and the late Mr. Becker himself that contradict him. Why would you still believe him???

David Miller could put the final nail in the coffin of White's claim, although you basically did just that tonight... if David says he got his blanks from Marty Becker and not Doug White, then White doesn't have a leg to stand on anymore. (recap: White explicitly claimed to have provided the blanks to David for part 5).

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Re: friday the 13th pt 3 behind the scenes

Postby Crash 4 life » Thu Mar 10, 2011 8:42 pm

What an incredible story .
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